Användardiskussion:TimeMaster
Välkommen på Inselöarna! (A) --OuWTBsjrief-mich december 8, 2012 kl. 17.34 (UTC) don't you dare use google translate for this :P Learning Swedish Well, here is some useful grammar: * Verbs have the same forms for all persons * The irregular verb att vara (to be): ** ... är (... is) ** ... var (... was) ** ... har varit (... has been) * The indefinite articles are en (common) and ett (neuter). * The definite form of nouns has the ending -(e)n (common) or -(e)t (neuter). * The genitive is made by adding an -s at the end of a noun. If the already ends with an s, nothing is added. * Pronouns: ** jag = I ** du = you (singular) ** han = he ** hon = she ** den = it (common) ** det = it (neuter) ** vi = we ** ni = you (plural) ** de = they And for vocabulary, the English and the Swedish wiktionary are useful. More grammar and vocabulary will come soon. If you have any questions, just ask them :) 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? december 8, 2012 kl. 18.29 (UTC) Okay, thank you. I am fairly good (not quite fluent) at French and I've constructed two languages, so I know how languages work, et cetera. —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 8, 2012 kl. 18.43 (UTC) Can you explain common vs. neuter? It seems like a strange division -- things neither masculine nor feminine and ?. Is it arbitrary like the Romance languages or is it a categorization system? —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 8, 2012 kl. 18.44 (UTC) Also, reading about Swedish nouns, it seems they have five classes of nouns which they divide into four forms: singular/plural with definite/indefinite (with the genitive as an s). If the definite/indefinite is part of the noun, does that mean there are no definite articles? If so (and if not so), how are definite and indefinite articles used? And is genitive used like possessive in English or what? —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 8, 2012 kl. 18.47 (UTC) Masculine and fiminine have merged into one gender. There are indeed several classes of nouns, the difference between them being the way the plural is made. There are actually definite articles, den and det. They are only used if there is an adjective, for example huset (the house) and det gamla huset (the old house). The use of indefinite articles is the same as in English. The genitive is indeed used like possessive as in English and is followed by the indefinite form of a noun. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? december 8, 2012 kl. 19.00 (UTC) Ohhh. So there was once Masculine, Feminine, and Neuter, like in German, and Masculine and Feminine merged to form Common? That'd be genitive is the possessor, followed by an indefinite possessed? —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 8, 2012 kl. 19.03 (UTC) :@gender: yes. @genitive: yes: Skolans problem (problem of the school). --OuWTBsjrief-mich december 8, 2012 kl. 19.04 (UTC) @TM: there are six classes on plural: -or (en skola-skolor), -ar (en hund-hundar), -er (en ort-orter), -r (en sko-skor), -n (ett äpple-äpplen), and -Ø (ett hus-hus). --OuWTBsjrief-mich december 8, 2012 kl. 19.03 (UTC) @TM: yes. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? december 8, 2012 kl. 19.05 (UTC) @OWTB: That's right. I've never counted those classes myself, so I didn't know how many there were :P 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? december 8, 2012 kl. 19.08 (UTC) :University skills è :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich december 8, 2012 kl. 19.12 (UTC) not that I'm a fluent Swedish speaker already... :P How do you know which class to use? Or do you have to memorize it all? —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 8, 2012 kl. 19.48 (UTC) I think all words ending on -a have plural on -or. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? december 8, 2012 kl. 21.22 (UTC) Well there are five classes (or six? according to Oos), so anything besides that? —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 8, 2012 kl. 21.34 (UTC) Neuter nouns ending in a vowel add -n (ett äpple-äpplen) and neuter nouns ending in a consonant aren't changed (ett hus-hus). And common nouns ending on -e end on -ar in plural (en pojke-pojkar). The plural definite form usually ends on -na (fiskar-fiskarna), but if the plural ends on -n, only the -a is added (äpplen-äpplena) and if the plural is the same as the singular, -en is used (hus-husen). 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? december 9, 2012 kl. 08.31 (UTC) Well, most of the classes are easy to find. See 4kant,6's examples. Others are common nouns on a stressed vowel get -r (sko - skor), on an unstressed vowel they remain the same (arbetare - arbetare). -ar and -er are a bit more difficult for people not familiar with Swedish's history. -ar is for words coming from Old Norse (hund - hundar), -er is for words from Old Norse which exhibit umlaut (man - männer, stad - städer) and loanwords (from German: ort - orter, from Latin: separation - separationer, etc.). When you're in doubt, you could always check at sv.wiktionary.org; they have most common words incl. inflection. --OuWTBsjrief-mich december 9, 2012 kl. 09.09 (UTC) Don't teach him wrong plural forms, the plural of man is män and not männer. 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? december 9, 2012 kl. 09.28 (UTC) Woop you're right. I was stupidly confusing with Platt German... However most words from Old Norse with an umlaut still take -er. To avoid confusion, the standard umlaut list is: : en man - män (man), en fot - fötter (foot), en hand - händer (hand), en tand - tänder (tooth), en rand - ränder (stripe, edge), ett land - länder (land, country), en strand - stränder (shore, beach), en brand - bränder (fire, conflagration), en fader - fäder (father), en broder - bröder (brother), en moder - mödrar (mother), en son - söner (son), en dotter - döttrar (daughter), en bok - böcker (book), en rot - rötter (root), en gås - gäss (goose), en and - änder (a kind of duck), en mus - möss (mouse). Dehdeh.. :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich december 9, 2012 kl. 09.55 (UTC) Alright, that's pretty short. I'll try to memorize. How about verb conjugations? —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 9, 2012 kl. 13.38 (UTC) There are four regular groups (to work - I work - I worked - I have worked): * att arbeta - jag arbetar - jag arbetade - jag har arbetat (-ar stem, most verbs are in this cat, including almost all "new" verbs, such as modernisera etc) * att läsa - jag läser - jag läste - jag har läst (to read; -er stem on a voiceless consonant, many common verbs fall in this cat) * att ringa - jag ringer - jag ringde - jag har ringt (to call, -er stem on a voiced consonant) * att bo - jag bor - jag bodde - jag har bott (to live somewhere, -r stem, all regular verbs on a stressed vowel) Then there are some irregular (strong) verbs. Some common ones: * att vara - jag är - jag var - jag har varit (to be) * att ha - jag har - jag hade - jag har haft (to have) * att falla - jag faller - jag föll - jag har fallit (to fall) * att bli - jag blir - jag blev - jag har blivit (to become) * att bära - jag bär - jag bar - jag har burit (to bear/carry) Basically, you have to remember in which category each verb should be. There are no real exclusive rules, except for verbs ending on the loan suffix -era (from French verbs). All persons singular/plural take the same ending, so jag läser/du läser/vi läser/katten läser/etc. --OuWTBsjrief-mich december 9, 2012 kl. 19.50 (UTC) How about past perfect, future, and future perfect? How is imperfect or any other type of progressive used? —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 9, 2012 kl. 19.57 (UTC) @Past perfect: jag hade arbetat/läst/ringt/bott/varit/... @Future: jag skall arbeta/läsa/ringa/... or jag kommer att arbeta/läsa/... @Future perfect: jag skall ha arbetat/läst/... 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? december 9, 2012 kl. 20.22 (UTC) And progressive? :P —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 9, 2012 kl. 20.23 (UTC) Where can I find a good free and online English-Swedish dictionary like wordreference.com? I dislike using Google Translate. —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 9, 2012 kl. 20.24 (UTC) Sv.wiktionary.org and en.wiktionary.org? :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich december 10, 2012 kl. 04.20 (UTC) Not so good for translating. I can't exactly understand definitions of words when they're in Swedish è. :P —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 10, 2012 kl. 11.53 (UTC) interglot.com maybe? 4kant,6FRÅGOR??? december 10, 2012 kl. 14.32 (UTC) Looks pretty good! —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 10, 2012 kl. 22.35 (UTC) Landstinget Interested in joining the Landstinget? You don't have to write laws, voting is also an option :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich december 12, 2012 kl. 11.18 (UTC) Okay. —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 12, 2012 kl. 11.54 (UTC) Of course, if things - regarding language or whatever - are not clear. You could always ask 4kant,6 or me :) --OuWTBsjrief-mich december 12, 2012 kl. 12.32 (UTC) Okay, though I probably will not learn much more Swedish or be very active here until Friday as I am busy this week. —TimeMaster (talk • ) december 12, 2012 kl. 22.29 (UTC) No problem. I'm usually not that active during the week as well :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich december 13, 2012 kl. 04.17 (UTC)